PDA

View Full Version : Some listener emails with comments/suggestions about possibly shutting down



DJ Rob
24th July 2007, 04:22 PM
We've had a lot of response to our last posting about shutting down in September. I want to thank everyone who has donated and/or offered suggestions about how we can stay on the air. I'm getting a similar suggestions that I want to address here and see if we can open a public dialog in our forums about it.


1) Many are saying we need to update the web site to more of a WEB2.0 version that would make it more animated and modern looking. I would LOVE to have that done!
The problem with that is we cannot afford to hire a web designer for thousands of bucks. And I can barely update the html code we have here now since my knowledge is limited. We spent A LOT of dough just getting the code written so we could have updated song title information on our site.


Does any one want to donate some time to our site that knows web design?
We do own some really cool Flash templates for web sites, so if anyone has experience with Flash and would like to configure one for us, that would be great!


2) A lot of you are saying we need to do a fundraiser similar to what PBS in the USA does with giveaways, bands that we play doing promos and such.
I would love to do that, but we do not have any staff to take on that type of responsibility/job. The concept of helping the station is great, but the reality is most people say they will but something usually comes up. And I cannot do it since I'm spending an upwards of 18 hours a day just to make sure our streams are filled with music goodness. And it may be too late for this idea since we are on the verge of turning the lights out and a fundraiser can take months to organize.


Let's talk about all of this in this thread and see if we can as a community come up with solutions and make this place better!

samm
24th July 2007, 09:55 PM
I really like the Sanctuary, and thus it would be great to see it survive. As I'm quite far away from probably most listeners, all I personally can do from here is donate money via PayPal and put a link here and there online - and it's what I do.

To answer the questions:
1) It would be nice to have a prettier website - not necessarily more animated, I like it clean and easy on the eye, for everything else, there's the music ;) I however am not a web-programmer, therefore can't help you directly. Donating money specifically towards a redesign is not really an option for me, too, as all money I can donate a month (which is not a lot, being a student) goes to the station in general - keeping the music running is more important to me.

2) I've never attended to any fundraiser-event, and offering give-aways sounds more like losing money than gaining any. But maybe I misunderstood ;) Isn't it enough to get some promotion round the world, e.g. by flyers being spread by Sanctuary-Listerners in their favourite clubs?


To Truth: Why are you here anyway? Do you gain anything from your spamming Sanctuary? Can't you solve your personal issues in RL, face to face (assuming your problems are with someone else than yourself), instead of bothering us listeners / writers here with it?

DJ Rob
25th July 2007, 05:49 PM
I think the site layout is okay for now. Not the best but it's the best I can do with my limited html skills. And it is pretty functional with more extras (like the forums) than most other independent radio station web sites. I spent 10 hours last night trying to configure a new flash web template I bought for a new site design before givng up. Once we can get someone to help us do a redesign (either at a good discount or free) then we will look at doing it.

I will look at getting some more flyers printed for the station. I will start by uploading a flyer to the web site so listeners can print them out on their own in the meantime since it may be months before I can find a company to do it for a discount or for free. Last year, Cire printing in Denver donated a few thousand flyers for free. Maybe we can get someone to do it again. If anyone knows a printer that may do that for us, let me know. But in the meantime, please print them out and let me know where you have distributed them.

I think it's most important right now to promote the hell out of this place. And get more current listeners to donate. The more listeners, the more support we can get hopefully. Then we can move to getting a fundraiser organized. Right now, we are on the edge of making it or not making it and every dollar I have is going into daily operating costs. Once we can get over a certain number of listeners, the costs per listener can go down because I will get better bulk discounts in streaming costs. And hopefully the amount of people who can donate will go up.

What do you all think?


UPDATE: You can print out the flyer from here (http://www.sanctuaryradio.com/flyer.pdf)

tamakay
6th August 2007, 05:40 PM
I love the fund raiser event! ;) Sorry I haven't acted on it. Any ideas how to get such a thing started?

Rob, send me some flyers. I'll can meet you somewhere to get them or you can mail them to me. I will pass them out around town and when I am out with my friends. And maybe Jared can take some with him when he travels.

I really DO want to help out. No lying, I just get stuck with not knowing what to do.

DJ Rob
11th August 2007, 08:00 PM
I love the fund raiser event! ;) Sorry I haven't acted on it. Any ideas how to get such a thing started?

Rob, send me some flyers. I'll can meet you somewhere to get them or you can mail them to me. I will pass them out around town and when I am out with my friends. And maybe Jared can take some with him when he travels.

I really DO want to help out. No lying, I just get stuck with not knowing what to do.

That's great Tam! I can use all of the help I can get!

I'm sorry but I don't have any printed flyers to give out. There is no money available for that since we have other bills that affect our daily operations.
Until I can find a company that would like to make flyers for us at a significant discount or for free, that will have to wait until we get over this hump. Or maybe listeners can print their own if they have a printer.

I have emailed Cire Printing, the company that gave us flyers before, but have not heard back. Plus, I hate to keep asking the same people over and over so it would be nice if we got another company to pitch in. Of course we would promote them in exchange for their donation. ;)

I have a Sanctuary Radio flyer ready to go for those of you that have a printer or can make some flyers on your own - Kinkos, etc...

You can find the flyer in PDF format HERE (http://www.sanctuaryradio.com/flyer.pdf)
I can supply a higher res version if needed. Or if you need it in a different format, let me know!

Other than that, I think we need to address what the immediate NEED is and address that. If we aren't on the air next month, then flyers will not matter anyway. Since we only have this month to make our goal, we need to let people know that if they want the station to stay alive, they need to donate or help collect donations by the end of the month. That is what we need NOW! Maybe you Tam and other listeners could start a donation collection at clubs/cafes and/or online in your towns?

We need to rely on the "free" ways to promote like here on the net (Myspace, Livejournal, email groups, etc.) since all of the cash I have is being pumped into keeping the lights on. So can you let people know this is it and hopefully they will help too?

As for a planning a fundraiser, we probably now need to wait until after we make our goal this month and take care of the shortterm emergencies to be able to plan for the future...because if we do not make our August goal, I will have to shut this place down and a fundraiser will be way too late.
Ideas?

DJ Rob
15th August 2007, 04:35 PM
I'm a little frustrated that with over 5,000 listeners a day, this thread is as dead as it is...

I would like to know what everyone is doing.

Has anyone made any flyers or did any promotion in the last couple of weeks? Or posted about our possible demise if we don't make our goal in email groups, Myspace, Livejournal, etc.?

Our listener numbers are up...so I'm wondering if it is due to promotion or just word of mouth....but this month is one of the slowest donation-wise in our history... :confused: We have 2 weeks left to raise over $400 or we are dead :(

Does anyone have any other ideas to help make our goal this month???

Despairkitty
17th August 2007, 11:47 PM
I know that keeping this station commercial free is something you want to do, but is it possible to get some sponsers to help and pay for the cost even if that means some commercial spots. I have been listening to this station for a few years and I try and contribute when I can. Money is tight now and I am sure I am not the only one that feels that way. I promote your site on my poetry site, and I know you have gotten a few listeners from that, but I dont know of any other way to raise the money. I finally registered with you guys just so I could post here. I sort of keep to myself I guess. I hope some solution can be found.

DJ Rob
18th August 2007, 05:12 AM
I know that keeping this station commercial free is something you want to do, but is it possible to get some sponsers to help and pay for the cost even if that means some commercial spots. I have been listening to this station for a few years and I try and contribute when I can. Money is tight now and I am sure I am not the only one that feels that way. I promote your site on my poetry site, and I know you have gotten a few listeners from that, but I dont know of any other way to raise the money. I finally registered with you guys just so I could post here. I sort of keep to myself I guess. I hope some solution can be found.

I really appreciate your support! We have looked at the possibility of running commercials, hoping they could support the station. But the truth is, most 'normal' advertisers won't advertise on a 'goth' station because of their lack of understanding of the music/culture/listeners. And it seems any businesses that are in our 'community' and do understand what we are all about that I've talked to, are having financial issues as well. Hopefully things will get better and something will come that will be a solution to our neverending streaming bills.

Despairkitty
18th August 2007, 07:41 PM
Well I guess that taps me of my bright ideas. It is too bad that people out there in the advertising world are not more understanding. Well I updated my homepage telling those that listen to please donate if they can. Other then that I am fresh out of ideas..

DJ Rob
19th August 2007, 03:13 PM
I sent out another email last week to about 200 businesses that cater in someway to our "scene". I offered a sponsorship for only $25 a month which would includes a banner on the site and a "shoutout" on the station. It's a great bargain. I did this a few months ago and only Gorey Details was interested. Hopefully I'll hear something back from that.

I'm hoping in the shout term that out of the 5-10,000 listeners we get a day, enough will be able help us achieve our goal in the next couple of weeks...

DJ Rob
27th August 2007, 03:23 PM
Hi Tamakay and others! I was wondering how the flyering/promoting and/or donation collecting is going? Thanks for your help!

locustgirl
28th August 2007, 01:46 PM
i have been posting messages on craigslist in major cities about sanctuary (not about financial woes, just about the awesomeness of it), and i posted on tribe.net - i'm hoping to get some new listeners hooked so they'll help out - of 5-10K listeners it is sad that so few donate - it's so little money if more people help - the death of sanctuary would be so senseless - and my days at the office so much less interesting! EEK!!

DJ Rob
28th August 2007, 03:11 PM
i have been posting messages on craigslist in major cities about sanctuary (not about financial woes, just about the awesomeness of it), and i posted on tribe.net - i'm hoping to get some new listeners hooked so they'll help out - of 5-10K listeners it is sad that so few donate - it's so little money if more people help - the death of sanctuary would be so senseless - and my days at the office so much less interesting! EEK!!

Thanks for all that you are doing Locustgirl!

Krona
30th August 2007, 05:08 AM
Dropped some cash for you. Not much (about all I can afford with my budget).
Question:
Is your station in anyway, or was, affiliated with the old KTCL out of Boulder/Front Range CO?

Krona

DJ Rob
30th August 2007, 06:21 AM
Dropped some cash for you. Not much (about all I can afford with my budget).
Question:
Is your station in anyway, or was, affiliated with the old KTCL out of Boulder/Front Range CO?

Krona

Thanks for the donation! Any amount helps!

To answer your question: We aren't affiliated with any station but I've been on a few stations in the Denver area including KTCL before Clear Channel ruined err....bought it. :D

Krona
31st August 2007, 12:56 AM
Thanks for the donation! Any amount helps!

To answer your question: We aren't affiliated with any station but I've been on a few stations in the Denver area including KTCL before Clear Channel ruined err....bought it. :D

No, it's ok...you can say it...
Before Clear Channel took a giant shit on it...

There. That's better.

I thought I recognized your voice. I listened to KTCL from around 1990 onwards, and off and on over the years when I was in the Denver-metro area.

Anyway, excellent station.

I guess my concern here is funding/bandwidth costs for the site.

vitam
1st September 2007, 01:25 PM
Just stumbled upon the station - NOTHING as good as this on air in London. If you can post a decent large flyer PDF either on here - or to me offlist I will get a cple hundred printed off and dumped in The Dev, Slimelight, and anywhere else I go in London (Next Gigs: VNV Nation, Covenant, Apocalyptica). Just donated a small token also :-)

Always happy to help promote Dark stuff!

Vitam

DJ Rob
3rd September 2007, 03:43 PM
Just stumbled upon the station - NOTHING as good as this on air in London. If you can post a decent large flyer PDF either on here - or to me offlist I will get a cple hundred printed off and dumped in The Dev, Slimelight, and anywhere else I go in London (Next Gigs: VNV Nation, Covenant, Apocalyptica). Just donated a small token also :-)

Always happy to help promote Dark stuff!

Vitam

Vitam, you rock! Thanks for your help!

I will get a good high rez PDF in the next day or two and post it in this thread. It is a half page flyer that can be resized down to a quarter if needed. Hopefully that will work for you. If not, let know. Thanks again!


EDIT, Here it is!It is a half page flyer: CLICK HERE FOR THE HIGH RES SANCTUARY RADIO FLYER (http://www.SanctuaryRadio.com/Sanctuary Ad - HighRes.pdf)

It is a high res PDF with a half page flyer on it. Let me know if you have any problems with it or need us to make any changes to make it easier for you to get these printed. Thanks for your help!!!

DJ Rob
10th September 2007, 05:38 AM
We are looking for more people who can help us get the word out about Sanctuary Radio and/or to collect donations in your town's clubs/cafes, etc. Please let us know if you can help! Thanks for your support!

SelArom
13th September 2007, 06:51 PM
saved the flyer, will print and distribute :)

-SelArom

DJ Rob
14th September 2007, 04:03 PM
Right on SelArom! You rock!

I got your email and once I find out some things, I'll be getting back to you about it. Probably Monday or Tuesday of next week...

SelArom
17th September 2007, 07:44 PM
sweet, looking forward to it if it can happen...

can you also post up a copy of the flyer in hi res as a photo image (jpg) instead of pdf? this will make it easier to distribute online

-SelArom

DJ Rob
25th September 2007, 06:07 PM
sweet, looking forward to it if it can happen...

can you also post up a copy of the flyer in hi res as a photo image (jpg) instead of pdf? this will make it easier to distribute online

-SelArom

I put one here (http://www.SanctuaryRadio.com/sanctuaryadhalfpage.jpg). You can also get other web friendly images at the bottom of the page here (http://www.sanctuaryradio.com/forums/home.php?pageid=donate).

Despairkitty
2nd October 2007, 08:54 PM
I thought at one time that you were going to be doing podcasts. Is that true or just something I imagined. (Trust me that happens often) :p That might help get the word out about the station as well. Of course I have no clue how much that costs and so forth, just a thought I was having as I was listening to my podcasts the other day and wish Sanctuary had one. ;)

SelArom
3rd October 2007, 03:21 PM
wow that's a great idea. podcasts can really help you reach a broader audience, especially if you put a small, non-intrusive promo at the beginning and end of each one.

-SelArom

SelArom
4th October 2007, 02:00 AM
what about letting us post embedded players for the station like on myspace or our sites or whatever. I think that would help get people listenin!

-SelArom

Despairkitty
4th October 2007, 09:21 PM
Thats a great idea. I think that alot more people would listen and at least check out the station that way.

DJ Rob
5th October 2007, 05:29 AM
I will look into the legality of it again and see what our options are. When we first started being on the air 24/7, I wanted to do Podcasts and the record labels wouldn't allow me to use their music in a "recorded form" without paying for the rights. They wanted the same as if we were releasing the music on a CD to the public - thousands of dollars per song.

What would you want to hear in a Sanctuary Radio Podcast? Maybe a new music Podcast? Or theme Podcasts?

SelArom
5th October 2007, 11:10 PM
what if you only released portions of the music, like previews, i've seen podcasts like this and they seem to be fairly popular. you can review new albums and play snippets like you find on amazon.com previews so people can know about new releases.

-SelArom

Chris Rohn
8th October 2007, 02:44 AM
I thought at one time that you were going to be doing podcasts. Is that true or just something I imagined. (Trust me that happens often) :p That might help get the word out about the station as well. Of course I have no clue how much that costs and so forth, just a thought I was having as I was listening to my podcasts the other day and wish Sanctuary had one. ;)

The Chris Rohn Program is available for subscription on Itunes and through other feed applications. Feel free to add it to your queue and listen to the program anytime by clicking here:

http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png (http://feeds.feedburner.com/chrisrohn) Subscribe to The Chris Rohn Program (http://feeds.feedburner.com/chrisrohn)

Of course it always sounds best through the SanctuaryRadio.com broadcast stream, but the option to listen on your personal audio player is available to you. ;)

DJ Rob
8th October 2007, 06:01 AM
I totally forgot to mention that Chris puts his show up as a podcast...sorry Chris!

I think DJ SelArom is putting up his Wednesday night shows on his web site (http://www.SelArom.com)as well in mp3 format.

We are working with the record labels to do a Sanctuary Radio New Music Podcast. The podcast and Sanctuary Radio will be the places to hear a lot of cool new music before it is released/played anywhere! It will most likely be a weekly podcast. ;)

SelArom
8th October 2007, 04:46 PM
lol yeah i was expementing with that, I was gonna post back here with my results but I guess you beat me to it. I've also embedded the player into myspace bulletins and stuff. it's pretty simple, just paste the feed url into the src property of the object/embed tag. so start postin!

the podcast sounds like it's gonna be great, and I just bought a zune so rock on!

-SelArom

Despairkitty
9th October 2007, 10:01 PM
Thanks Chris I will do that. :)

Despairkitty
9th October 2007, 10:02 PM
Rob, I would be happy to have any podcast from Sanctuary. :) I am not very picky.

SelArom
15th October 2007, 01:43 AM
I totally forgot to mention that Chris puts his show up as a podcast...sorry Chris!

I think DJ SelArom is putting up his Wednesday night shows on his web site (http://www.SelArom.com)as well in mp3 format.

We are working with the record labels to do a Sanctuary Radio New Music Podcast. The podcast and Sanctuary Radio will be the places to hear a lot of cool new music before it is released/played anywhere! It will most likely be a weekly podcast. ;)

i seem to be having trouble with this, i've tried to embed into a few sites, bulletins, etc, but the stream doesn't seem to be playing. is the stream blocked from being posted on external sites somehow? I can play the stream from the link on the front page, but when I try to embed a player, it won't play the stream.

any ideas? thanks!

-SelArom

DJ Rob
15th October 2007, 04:16 AM
i seem to be having trouble with this, i've tried to embed into a few sites, bulletins, etc, but the stream doesn't seem to be playing. is the stream blocked from being posted on external sites somehow? I can play the stream from the link on the front page, but when I try to embed a player, it won't play the stream.

any ideas? thanks!

-SelArom

Are you talking about Chris' site or the main Sanctuary Radio site?

If you are talking about Sanctuary Radio, please DO NOT link our streams outside of this site. Please just link the front page of our site. We have a few banners you can use on our Help Promote/Donate page.

There are a few reasons for this...

1) Legal. We have legal agreements in place with the record labels we get music servicing from that we are to provide realtime title/artist information to the listeners. And that our streams are to ONLY serve listeners that tune in to SanctuaryRadio.com. No other domains are allowed to use our streams for any reason. And no rebroadcasting on other internet stations is allowed.

2) Costs. Last year, I had a goth music webmag site link our stream and claim it as their own. And I was hit with a $10,000 streaming cost that month since I'm billed per listener. Yes we got more listeners but they didn't know/ where the music was coming from and none donated to us.

3) Donations. We want everybody who listens to read what we have on our site and give them the option to support us and the companies that support us. We do not run commercials so the only way we survive is because of donations. And if they do not donate, hopefully they will link our site ;)

SelArom
15th October 2007, 04:32 AM
ahh okay rob sorry i didn't realize. i will update my links and posts!

what about linking to the embedded player, is that okay or does it have to be the main site only?

-SelArom

DJ Rob
31st October 2007, 10:28 PM
I would prefer linking the main site since that will hopefully get them to stay longer and check out everything we have to offer ;)

SelArom
9th November 2007, 01:39 AM
hey rob what about integrating google ads or something into the site and especially embedded player to generate revenue and offset costs?

-SelArom

DJ Rob
9th November 2007, 02:16 AM
Been there, done that...

I tried Google Ads and Adwords on the site for a few months maybe a year or two ago. It ended up being a bust and I personally found a few issues with doing it.

Most importantly, the site looked like crap with the ads. And because most of our visitors just want to listen (and do not spend much time exploring the site), the ads didn't make us much money since they were not clicked. I think we were averaging around $5 a month in revenue at best. So afte I few months I made the decision that I'd rather have a clean looking ad free site for $5 more, instead of one covered with ads.

Another thing that concerned me was that most of the ads that were being served to us were ads for other radio stations. There is an option to block ads from certain companies and after I had blocked all of radio stations trying to get our listeners, we were only served with PSA ads that gave us no revenue clicked or not.

Thanks for the suggestion and if you can think of anything else, let me know! I have tried a lot of things here and I'm always open to try more ;)

SelArom
5th December 2007, 01:05 AM
the possibility of a shut down is distressing news indeed. I love the music here and am eternally grateful for the opportunity to stream mixes and be part of the fun, so what can I do to help?

are the fee increases due to music licensing or just bandwith? if it's the latter what are the possibilities of seeking a different host that might offer a discounted fee structure?

-SelArom

Despairkitty
5th December 2007, 02:36 AM
AHHH...I so dont want this site to leave me. I just dont know what else to do. I plug this station into all my web pages and I donate every month as much as I can. I am just so distressed because this is really the best station on the web...I will think on it but I dont know what else can be done. Thanks you Rob for all that you have done. :)

DJ Rob
5th December 2007, 04:39 AM
Thanks for your kind words and support! I'm thinking too and hopefully a good idea will come!