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aveluciferi
27th September 2008, 11:15 PM
To rescue SAnctuary. It has to be a pay site. Members/listeners have to pay each month.
Stongly believe that if every listener, is charged one buck a month, they wont turn their back on Santuary.
Santuary have up to 5000 listeners a day. So if half of them abondoned Santuary, it dosent matter. Still income enough, to the good side.
It can be a problem getting new listeners. But with a free 3 months trial, i dont think that would be a problem;)

DJ Rob
28th September 2008, 03:05 AM
To rescue SAnctuary. It has to be a pay site. Members/listeners have to pay each month.
Stongly believe that if every listener, is charged one buck a month, they wont turn their back on Santuary.
Santuary have up to 5000 listeners a day. So if half of them abondoned Santuary, it dosent matter. Still income enough, to the good side.
It can be a problem getting new listeners. But with a free 3 months trial, i dont think that would be a problem;)

We may try that VERY soon if we do not make our September goal. I'm at my wits end on this. I'm getting tired of begging every month, struggling to have our listeners pay for a third of our costs while I still pay $1000 a month out of my own pocket to keep this place going. Not to mention all of the time I put in.

The sad thing is as an open site, less than 1% of our listeners donate. I'm not sure how many more would donate if we only offered our site to donaters though. I think a majority would just try to find another "free" site or play from their own mp3s/CDs. I could be wrong through.

It's frustrating to hear from many of our listeners that do not donate but yet talk about all of the clubs and concerts they go to. It shows they could probably throw us a buck or two but just choose not to.

DJ Rob
28th September 2008, 05:01 PM
I have created a poll linked to this thread that people can vote on. I will also put the poll on the front page. Everyone please post your opinions/comments/ideas in this thread about this topic.

m
28th September 2008, 06:47 PM
If there could be some other solution, I would like that... being a student without source of income or credit card prevents me from donating to SR, despite my appreciation.

But, setting aside personal issues, Ave Luciferi is absolutely right.

SelArom
28th September 2008, 07:52 PM
what if you set a cap on free listeners, but always keep the stream for paid users (maybe tracked by login ip or something?) open and unlimited. or perhaps time-bomb the free listeners to x minutes per hour, or air commercials on their stream or something....

just an idea. i love the station but I certainly don't think it's fair for a handful of people to carry the burden of SO many listeners when only $1 from each a month would support the station indefinitely...

Me
29th September 2008, 03:02 PM
I have to agree. It's not fair that so few are helping keep this great station. $1.00 a month isn't much to ask for. I listen to DJ Rob's plead in the necessity of donations and feel that so many people are taking advantage of the station.
Allowing people only a limited access to the site and to the stream unless they donate I think is a valid point. Now granted there are those few individuals who are in a financial burden and simply cannot donate we all have been there. But I do believe something needs to be done to keep sanctuary alive.

realitychek78
29th September 2008, 03:08 PM
Sorry I guess I should have logged in when I wrote this....


I have to agree. It's not fair that so few are helping keep this great station. $1.00 a month isn't much to ask for. I listen to DJ Rob's plead in the necessity of donations and feel that so many people are taking advantage of the station.
Allowing people only a limited access to the site and to the stream unless they donate I think is a valid point. Now granted there are those few individuals who are in a financial burden and simply cannot donate we all have been there. But I do believe something needs to be done to keep sanctuary alive.

...
29th September 2008, 05:54 PM
What about getting commercials on like what live365 does? That way another source of income can be used to make the site break even at least.

DJ Rob
29th September 2008, 06:56 PM
what if you set a cap on free listeners, but always keep the stream for paid users (maybe tracked by login ip or something?) open and unlimited. or perhaps time-bomb the free listeners to x minutes per hour, or air commercials on their stream or something....

just an idea. i love the station but I certainly don't think it's fair for a handful of people to carry the burden of SO many listeners when only $1 from each a month would support the station indefinitely...

Sadly, I wouldn't even know where to start to be able to do this. It looks like it would probably involve buying more servers and writing software. Since there isn't anything out there that does this that is widely used, I would have no idea what the extra cost and time it would take to develop and implement.

Hopefully we can get more and different people willing to donate.

DJ Rob
29th September 2008, 07:01 PM
What about getting commercials on like what live365 does? That way another source of income can be used to make the site break even at least.

I wish! We have looked at the possibility of running commercials, hoping they could support the station. But the truth is, the advertisers we have contacted won't advertise on a 'alternative/goth' station because of their lack of understanding of the culture/listeners and not knowing how to market to our listeners.

I can't get any businesses (except for one) to donate just $25 for a banner ad on every page of the site...

Rev the poor
29th September 2008, 07:04 PM
honistly since i'm destitute and would donate if i could/had a bank card, i would surgest comercials as long as there kept approtate to the station, i mean there must be 100's of clothing / music related website that would love to have 5000 people a day hear what they do ect. i know i've struggled to find decent places to get cloths n the past and so long as the add is approprate to the music i'd listen.

m
29th September 2008, 07:57 PM
and so long as the add is approprate to the music i'd listen.

Yeah, that sounds like it might work - get alternative advertisement for alternative music? I really like having the commercial free music, but if it would help Sanctuary, I wouldn't mind the advertisements on air.

DJ Rob
29th September 2008, 09:25 PM
Unless somebody knows someone who would sponsor us, I don't think we will have commercials. ;)

pj
29th September 2008, 11:57 PM
I think you should charge to listen to the station... even if that means I may not be able to listen to the station.... but you have to do what you have to do to survive Rob!!!!

SelArom
30th September 2008, 03:56 AM
Sadly, I wouldn't even know where to start to be able to do this. It looks like it would probably involve buying more servers and writing software. Since there isn't anything out there that does this that is widely used, I would have no idea what the extra cost and time it would take to develop and implement.

Hopefully we can get more and different people willing to donate.

I'd be willing to help with this if I can learn more about what you're using. is this part of the vbulletin or the streaming server software? I may not be able to do it right away, but if it can indeed be done, I can eventually find a way to do it

DJ Rob
30th September 2008, 07:47 PM
I'd be willing to help with this if I can learn more about what you're using. is this part of the vbulletin or the streaming server software? I may not be able to do it right away, but if it can indeed be done, I can eventually find a way to do it

It would have to be developed from scratch since there isn't anything made like it yet. It would probably have to be a new streaming interface...

DJ Rob
30th September 2008, 07:49 PM
I think you should charge to listen to the station... even if that means I may not be able to listen to the station.... but you have to do what you have to do to survive Rob!!!!

You can't afford $1?

pj
30th September 2008, 10:37 PM
honestly rob no I can't, whenever I make the choice to go out which by the way is maybe once a month I usually have all of 10 bucks that I stole out of my $30.00 a week grocery money. Like I said you need to do what can to take of yourself and the station and if that means I cannot listen because I can't donate then so be it. I really wish I could be more financially secure where I could afford to donate money to the station which I wholeheartedly support and enjoy, currently I am barely able to purchase the things that I need to survive. I really hope that you guys find a way to make the station survive, with or without me.

The Shadow
1st October 2008, 06:07 AM
I see a lot of you out each weekend that say you cant donate cause your broke. Give up a drink and put it towards something better for you and the world!

Grendal
1st October 2008, 04:14 PM
What I feel about the situation is pretty much what I think most everyone else is feeling; while I would prefer everyone could listen for free, its just not economically feasible, nor is it easy or a sustainable to allow just a few to shoulder the burden.
Here are several scenarios I came up with: Instead of $1 per month, ask for $5 per listener a month or even $10. This will cover those that can't or won't donate, R & D, and the purchase of new music/ equipment. One can easily spend $5-$10 at a club/bar on 1-2 drinks in one night nowadays.
Second scenario, move to a membership model. Not my favorite but it might be a necessary evil. You might have some people stop listening but the station would survive. It would be rough at first until you can reach a level of sustainability and then you can grow beyond that through more subscriptions (keeping the donation button to help with the R&D and equipment repair/replacement/upgrade cost and monthly shortages).

Grendal
-Anonymous fuzzy goth guy

PJ
1st October 2008, 07:38 PM
Upon further reflection I have realized that I don't want to be one of the people who expects everyone else to pick up the bill for the radio station that she enjoys listening to. So in light of the fact that I have no money to donate that means that I will sadly say goodbye to Sanctuary Radio, I really hope that Rob manages to make the station work and that he is able to get his monthly donations. I honestly think that a subscription service or membership or something along those lines will be the best way to ensure funds on a monthly basis. I wish you luck Rob!

ArchAngel
2nd October 2008, 05:23 PM
Upon further reflection I have realized that I don't want to be one of the people who expects everyone else to pick up the bill for the radio station that she enjoys listening to. So in light of the fact that I have no money to donate that means that I will sadly say goodbye to Sanctuary Radio, I really hope that Rob manages to make the station work and that he is able to get his monthly donations. I honestly think that a subscription service or membership or something along those lines will be the best way to ensure funds on a monthly basis. I wish you luck Rob!

Leaving the site is not the answer. If everyone did that there wouldn't be a sanctuary. Looking at the names only the same 15 people donate each month. Some can afford it and do. Some can't afford and don't. Some can afford it and won't. If you believe in it, do. I can only afford to donate every other month. The djs here ask for support by advertising and or donating. When I can't donate I post on the internet about the station. I also print out flyers and take them to the clubs. If you can't afford to donate do the other things you can do to help. The more fans of the station we can get here the more here that can afford to donate. I try to donate as much as I can and I know it pays for others to tune in. I'm happy to do that. Abandoning the station and all of the djs hard work here is not the answer.

DJ Rob
2nd October 2008, 08:57 PM
I don't want anyone to think they should leave if they can't afford to donate. That's not what this place is about AT ALL.

It's about ALL OF US building a community with good people and good tunes that is supportive and helps each other and the scene. With none of the negative BS (like egos and clicks) that you find in a lot of scenes or clubs.

I do ask if you can't donate, at least help promote us or do anything you think you can do to help with the cause. I can't do as much as I wish I could ;)

pixie
2nd October 2008, 09:04 PM
Upon further reflection I have realized that I don't want to be one of the people who expects everyone else to pick up the bill for the radio station that she enjoys listening to. So in light of the fact that I have no money to donate that means that I will sadly say goodbye to Sanctuary Radio, I really hope that Rob manages to make the station work and that he is able to get his monthly donations. I honestly think that a subscription service or membership or something along those lines will be the best way to ensure funds on a monthly basis. I wish you luck Rob!

no need to walk off into the world all alone, PJ...dont make a mountain out of a mole hill :)

izzard
2nd October 2008, 11:04 PM
pj is right. we should all leave this sight and never come back! that will show them!

DJ Rob
2nd October 2008, 11:08 PM
pj is right. we should all leave this sight and never come back! that will show them!

If you are going to be a drama queen, then by all means please leave. :rolleyes:

DJ Rob
3rd October 2008, 01:04 AM
Because of all of the spammers that have come out of the closet in the last day, I'm setting the forums back so that only registered users who have verified their email addresses can post. Please register to participate, it is free. If you have any problems registering or verifying your email, please let us know at requests@Sanctuaryradio.com

SelArom
3rd October 2008, 07:46 PM
hey rob i'm confused. are you saying that people who are registered now and over the weekend will have permanent free access, and after that new members have to pay? how exactly is it going to work? I'm asking so I know what to post on my advertisments and stuff

thanks!

DJ Rob
3rd October 2008, 08:33 PM
hey rob i'm confused. are you saying that people who are registered now and over the weekend will have permanent free access, and after that new members have to pay? how exactly is it going to work? I'm asking so I know what to post on my advertisments and stuff

thanks!

I opened it up so that now and over the weekend, you can tune in without having to log in with an account. Believe or not, we lost half of our listeners because people didn't want to register to listen this week, even though it's free. So I'm trying different things and figuring it out as we go along...

trbirdsall
2nd October 2009, 05:28 PM
I do donate when I can, but I've always felt that people would pay (including me) for premium content. Maybe only listener/donaters could have access to something like weekly podcasts. I'd love to have access to (and pay extra for) a collection of Sanctuary Radio shows for long car tips and such...

DJ Rob
3rd October 2009, 10:54 PM
Podcasts are in the works! ;)

Thanks for the suggestion!

amyablume
11th February 2010, 09:44 PM
Wow i was thinking initially that i wanted to keep the station open to the public because thats the best way of finding more audience for the music and as a musician and fan i'd like for our music to be expanding and not contracting. What i cant understand though is why there is so much vitriol and competitiveness in our communities all over the country. Its sad really. I'll stay a listener of sanctuary no matter what you decide to do Rob. I just wish we'd all grow up.

DJ Rob
11th February 2010, 10:14 PM
Wow i was thinking initially that i wanted to keep the station open to the public because thats the best way of finding more audience for the music and as a musician and fan i'd like for our music to be expanding and not contracting. What i cant understand though is why there is so much vitriol and competitiveness in our communities all over the country. Its sad really. I'll stay a listener of sanctuary no matter what you decide to do Rob. I just wish we'd all grow up.

From what I've personally witnessed, it's only one or two people in every town that can poison the rest and cause drama. I think if more people stood up to and took care of those one or two, things would be so much better. ;)

m
13th February 2010, 05:31 PM
hi - a new way for websites to generate revenue is being created by the founders of the pirate bay. more information here:[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8512263.stm"]

something to look into, maybe?

stephencelliott
14th April 2010, 08:27 AM
i still think rewarding donors with a 15 min to 1 hr scrolling shout out or verbal shout on the air over the course of a set period of time is a good way to reward the givers. thus be encouraged to give again.
my goal is to give $25 per month, except last month you pissed me off when you left the charted waters for other musical offerings which i disliked.
the other idea is to sell memberships or supporter spots or sell shares in the operation, etc
just try and try different ideas until somethings clicks.

or something radical... sell ad spots to select clients which fit your accepted principles or goals.

hold on to the dream. it will work out.
stephen of montreal quebec

cuzicouldyay
5th December 2010, 07:15 AM
As a "starving college student" without a credit card, I'd be pretty saddened if Sanctuary Radio were no longer available to me. Honestly, if you knocked on my dorm room door I'd be able to hand you a dollar in coins if nothing else, but I currently lack a way to pay for a subscription online. :( Sanctuary Radio is the only radio station I listen to (you're awesome!). So while I really do understand you need funding, I just want to offer a reminder that not everyone who listens without paying is a cheapskate. ^^; Keep being awesome, and good luck!

GreighVonGottreich
1st March 2011, 02:47 PM
Wouldn't recommend pay-for-play due to the fact that certain web-enabled devices do not support account logons*. Plus, having the site open for all to listen will bring in more listeners/potential donors via word of mouth/facebook. Though, I'm quite amazed I got my boss hooked on the tunes.

*Grace media player, Roku M1001, and etc.

CL
23rd July 2011, 01:44 AM
DJ Rob,

I read your response that you can't find people to advertise and put commercials on your site. I find this hard to beleive.

I listen to several different online radio stations, one of which is a metal station (everything from death metal to Rammstein) and they have commercials. They are annoying and its the same ones over and over again but they probably pay the bills.

If you get 5000 listeners a day or whatever, that should be the only thing that makes or breaks their decision to advertise with you. Numbers are what matter, not what type of music you play.

Maybe talk to other radio station owners and see if they have any advice/input.

Good luck.

Funkn3ss
30th September 2011, 02:51 AM
You guys don't play enough VNV Nation! What's up with that?!!!

MORE VNV NATION DAMN IT! :p

mick lovin
23rd January 2012, 09:16 PM
rob, just ran across this post.....
funny how i was just thinking about mailing you about how you are the most un-egotisitical dj i have ever ''known''
anyways to the point of this post....
i have never donated to any, any, any, site i have visited but your retro station is so unfuckingbelievable that i had no choice.
one buck is no excuse not to donate.
maybe make only donors able to request?
(i love that my requests get played but i liked it even more when they were played in blocks)
rob, youre awesome!
chin up!

Gothika
27th February 2012, 09:25 PM
I could dump some folders somewhere around the clubs i come. I dont go very often because i live from 50 a week. I just cant afford to pay =( I would be devistated if i cant listen sanctuary radio tbh. I listen to it almost 24/7. Its my harbor.

DJ Rob
3rd June 2012, 09:23 PM
If you want me to send you some flyers to distribute around to clubs, etc., just let me know! I'll mail them to you. Email me your name & mailing address to contact@SanctuaryRadio.com

Kevlar
19th November 2012, 08:55 PM
I vaguely remember some sites providing a higher quality stream for users who paid and a "FM quality" stream for everyone else... I wonder if that model would work?

Wow, holy necro-post Batman... I saw someone talking about the poll in the Shoutbox and didn't pay attention to the last post date. :o

Optikal Illuzion
28th November 2012, 03:24 AM
I wouldn't charge each person. I would recommend doing what other online stations do in offering a $5 monthly subscription where paying members have access to a higher bit rate stream, are entered into monthly draws, and have access to exclusive content, like a chat room in lieu of the "Shoutbox". I would even up the anti by including the paying members in monthly or even bi-weekly content advisors, where paying members get to give their input on new content being added to the stations, and their personal content addition recommendations take pressidence over non-paying and donating members. You can even set it up so the subscription is automatically renewed each month. And have a feature where if you pay a Full Year in advance you get 3 months free and/or a free Sanctuary T-Shirt and/or a thank you phone call from the DJ of their choice. HAHAHA

Optikal Illuzion
28th November 2012, 03:25 AM
Yes. I've been mulling this over since I first joined the site. Just didn't know how to go about approaching Rob about it, until now. :)

Optikal Illuzion
28th November 2012, 03:26 AM
DJ Rob....
What about stickers???? Would gladly stick some street lights and stuff with them. They're harder to get rid of then flyers too. :D

DJ Rob
28th November 2012, 09:56 AM
I wouldn't charge each person. I would recommend doing what other online stations do in offering a $5 monthly subscription where paying members have access to a higher bit rate stream, are entered into monthly draws, and have access to exclusive content, like a chat room in lieu of the "Shoutbox". I would even up the anti by including the paying members in monthly or even bi-weekly content advisors, where paying members get to give their input on new content being added to the stations, and their personal content addition recommendations take pressidence over non-paying and donating members. You can even set it up so the subscription is automatically renewed each month. And have a feature where if you pay a Full Year in advance you get 3 months free and/or a free Sanctuary T-Shirt and/or a thank you phone call from the DJ of their choice. HAHAHA


A higher bit rate stream would cost us a lot more money to do. We already stream at 128k/48khz which is CD quality. The other stuff you mentioned may be doable. ;-)

I have stickers coming hopefully in the first few months of 2013, once I can afford to pay all of the taxes on the donations... yep, in addition to Paypal, the IRS also gets their cut.

demon_infernal
30th October 2014, 09:08 PM
No, please, don't move to commercial. True fans will donate anyway, but where there will be new fans, if ONLY donators will have access to the site/streams?
Keep the previous speaker to only donators can make requests.

MrBlack6
9th June 2015, 06:57 PM
Can you make it that only those who donate are able to request songs?

meldroc
15th January 2016, 07:20 PM
I'd suggest that instead of going for traditional advertising, see if you can get some of the cool clubs and venues, like Denver's Milk Bar, for example, or maybe shops like Fashionation here in Denver, to sponsor Sanctuary Radio - these are places that want to draw alternative/goth business.

meldroc
15th January 2016, 07:22 PM
Also, it might not hurt to go on to places like Patreon, and see if you can fundraise that way.

luvu2death32
23rd April 2017, 09:10 PM
I listen to this station almost all day on and off. To me, it is worth a donation to have all the music I like on 2 stations. Where I live, there is not much of a goth/industrial scene, if any so this station keeps me sane on most days. Have you thought about contacting clubs all over the place to set up some promotion for the station and possible donations? I know if I was out somewhere and saw an ad for the station, I would check it out. I'm all about old fashioned promotion. :)

zero_constant
28th November 2017, 02:22 AM
If I had Hurst (Koch these days) money I'd bankroll the station solo. Knowing what it's like to struggle, to literally barely make it from one week to the next, I have a hard time supporting subscriber only streams. I want the people who actually can't afford to donate anything to have access as well. I have no problem whatsoever with my donations helping ppls who can't afford to contribute being able to listen to Sanctuary. Frankly, I like to feel like I help those who don't have the discretionary income for these niceties be able to be a part of the scene that they (and I, therefore we ?) love.

That said it really does kill me to see the sheer number of listeners at any given time of the day. Like Rob has said time and time again, if even HALF the people who listen to the station would give a freaking DOLLAR A MONTH Sanctuary would blow it's goal out of the water every month. Twelve bucks a year. Seriously man. Twelve bucks a year. Drink two less lattes across an ENTIRE YEAR and you can support the most awesomest bestest everest internet radio station EVAR!

Whatever happens, thank you Rob. Thanks for all the hard work, router swapouts, shoutouts, seemingly random live club-mixes and banter. Thanks for introducing me to so many new artists and keeping me up on new releases by old favs. For bringing me the tunes I need to make it through another soul-sapping day of the nine-to-five routine. For all the times I've whispered "I need my Sanctuary tonight" to the dusty darkness, and there it was, just a click away.

P.S. Whoa, just looked at the datestamps.....wasn't intentionally trying to necro this. My "new posts" link brought this up as recent. Whatevs, it's still relevant.

S A V E Y O U R S A N C T U A R Y ! ! !

bondagebetty
30th April 2019, 07:52 PM
To rescue SAnctuary. It has to be a pay site. Members/listeners have to pay each month.
Stongly believe that if every listener, is charged one buck a month, they wont turn their back on Santuary.
Santuary have up to 5000 listeners a day. So if half of them abondoned Santuary, it dosent matter. Still income enough, to the good side.
It can be a problem getting new listeners. But with a free 3 months trial, i dont think that would be a problem;)

I think everyone can afford at least $1 if not then there is something wrong with the way people are budgeting. I was off of work for surgery and I still donate.

bondagebetty
30th April 2019, 07:53 PM
I totally agree with what you are saying....:)